Pocket Conversation 7.0 – Holly + Zoe

 

After first meeting through mutual friends, Holly and Zoe discovered an intersection of shared worlds, exploring this in their first collaboration. From here came an indulgence in cobalt blue, striped poets, and a big visual rebrand of HB Archive. 
Along the way a close friendship blossomed and despite living in different states, Tuesday’s now mean “HB Tuesday” which include long distance park hangouts and HB planning. On a rainy Monday while in Melbourne, Holly and Zoe met together to reflect on five years of working with each other.

ZB: Okay, have you had your first sip? Cheers!

HB: Oh, cheers!

*Holly and Zoe clink mugs of coffee*

HB: The phone [recording] looks like a parrot on your shoulder. Do you want me to go first?

ZB: You go first -

HB: Okay, ummm… At the beginning of the year, we went through your wardrobe together to work out what sort of pant you were missing (looking at shape, style, colour, fabric, fibre). I find it so interesting comparing our subtle differences in lifestyles; you cycle, I walk, plus Sydney vs Melbourne weather. I was wondering, how has your style transformed since we did this and also in the last five years that you’ve been back in Sydney?

ZB: Okay, so these Harvey's, which are the moonstone Harvey's – have been major for my wardrobe. And actually, interestingly, since wearing them, I've also been wearing my jeans more, which are more fitted. So now my main two pants are both denim though they’re very different shapes. It's been so fun having this rotation with the Harvey's being much more slouchy, super comfy and very adjustable. They both create a very different energy within me.

HB: You ride your bike a lot.

ZB: I ride my bike everywhere. I feel like, in the past five years, since being back in Sydney, I have kind of settled into my aesthetic style a lot but when we had that conversion I realised there was a lot of compromise in my wardrobe of pieces that don’t fit. Next year I want to move those pieces on. Okay shall I – the coffee is so good…

HB: Especially in this cup!

ZB: Yeah! Okay building off that conversation – we spend so much time daydreaming... it has a lot of importance in the work we do and I think it's an interesting shared activity. Because it's so conceptual and speculative it actually requires a lot of trust. I also think, with us, there's very much a shared aesthetic or visual understanding, and I was wondering how much of that you think is inherent to each of us individually, that we’ve  both brought to the table, versus something we've built together, particularly since the rebrand?

HB: My first thought is it was always there, because I remember you coming over before we worked together, and we showed each other our rock collections. And so I think I showed you, like, every shell in my bedroom.

ZB: And then there was a rock in my first collaboration!

HB: Totally! And then we've done photos over the years that have had the rocks in it. So I think we're both daydreamers. And you're enthusiastic about my day-dreams which makes me want to tell you more and [makes me] feel like it's worth sharing because of your interest. You're just very encouraging of my silly little whatevers. So I think, I think I've always had it, but maybe I've not always been confident to share them.

ZB: It’s so hard to know when you’re working by yourself. 

HB: Yeah! I've always created and made silly things, but I've never thought of them as anything. But in our conversations we connect the dots a lot, and so I think we've grown together, but also that our friendship has always been based on daydreaming.

ZB: Definitely.

HB: Validate daydreaming! It’s so important. My question kind of riffs off that. It's about friendship - long distance friendships and working remotely. We've lived in different cities for most of our friendship, and the whole time since we've worked together, I've been introduced to so many wonderful friends through them wearing HB or collaborating with us both. I love that what we make together is so inspiring to us, but also that our friendship is top of the list before work. What do you think is a good tip for long distance friendship/remote working, and to keep feeling motivated and inspired when you are technically on your own clock.

ZB: Ohhh… I have a lot of long distance friends - some of my best friends [are long distance]. And I think a massive thing in it is trusting that even if you haven't spent time with them recently, they still have this place for you, and they still want that connection with you.

HB: Also, it's quite interesting, because I feel like with a lot of these long distance close friends you end up spending really quality time with. You do only get to catch up with them, like twice, three times a year, but it's concentrated. We've been overseas together non stop chatting for like, weeks at a time.

ZB: Yes! All of my really close friends, even if we live interstate, I have had these very core experiences with them - fundamental experiences. So yeah, I reckon that's my long distance friend tip. And then another bonus one is just - I love doing photo dumps. Just sending people a photo, when you think of them, is major.

HB: That's so nice.

ZB: Not only do they get the photo as a vignette from your life, they also know, “oh, this person does think of me -”

HB: “- this reminded them of me”

ZB: Yeah. And working on your own… if you can find a way to cultivate a sense of team, peers, or community, especially in terms of the work you're doing, even if that's not necessarily with the client, just having someone to say hi to and share what you’re up to during the day.

HB: On the days we are working on HB we always have a lunch time check in.

ZB: Yeah! We’re very much in conversation on our Tuesdays which makes me feel less isolated in the work I’m doing. And there was a third question right?

HB: About friendship… I think I just wanted to put it on record that you've connected me with some great friends.

ZB: Yeah, I think that really speaks to the fact that HB has become a very natural part of my world. And I think because of what you were saying - we are inspired by the things we do, the conversations and the work we do together. It just has this ripple effect where the other people in my life somehow become involved in a very organic way.

HB: [The friends we collaborate with are often] creatives as well so it helps with feeling inspired by others in the process.

ZB: Yeah hmm.. okay so this is a good follow on - what do you think working together regularly, because it's been pretty much weekly for, like, a while now, has done for both HB and also your feelings within HB?

HB: Oh, you saved me! I wouldn't still be doing it - really! What did I want from it when I started? It was anonymous! I didn't want to show my face, and so I think, I wouldn't have felt so comfortable showing a personality if I didn't have you with me also expressing a part of yourself.

ZB: So did it take the pressure off just being you? It became more of a ‘we’.

HB: Yeah, the ‘we’ which I never spoke of. But I can now - if I identify that it’s you and me! It just feels more inclusive. Also like, again, most photo shoots are in Sydney with your friends. So I feel connected by seeing that. And then I get to go and meet them when I'm visiting you,  and see their worlds. It's connection! You've brought a lot of connection and confidence for me.

ZB: So nice. What about within HB itself? How do you think the brand has shifted since we started working together regularly?

HB: There's a lot more potential for everything now. When we first started working together, you understood the brand of HB beyond what I even understood. When you did the re-brand pitch you were talking about using the horizontal line of the logo as a building block, and how it could be used in all these different ways and mean all these things. And I think getting to talk through everything with you has relieved some of the work load. I know I can just say, “this is what I've written. Can you look over it?”. Then I can set that [fine tuning] aside and focus on sewing for a few hours. I was also editing everything on the  website myself the first few years,  so I think giving you the jobs that you excel at – like, the visual identity of HB is aligned with your vision, it's very much inspired by your eye, I tried to take photos the other day and I still can’t do it like you do, and I don’t have to if you can... Ohh also you do your vulnerability checks with me.

ZB: Underrated!

HB: I write something and send it to you and you’ll be like “maybe take out that part”.

ZB: You’re so generous and open that I think it’s helpful to have someone to help provide a slightly removed perspective.

HB: Because it’s so easy to worry about it for days after. You’ll just be like “you don’t have to actually say all that”.

ZB: Yeah, and that’s a thing of knowing you [as a person] as well as knowing the brand.

HB: Yeahhhh! I want to do these questions again off record…. Um, my last one before the bonus question. You were talking to me and Yoshi the other day about your extra-curricular studies.

ZB: Oh yes!

HB: Off the top of your head, what is something you have enjoyed learning recently that you can’t stop thinking about?

ZB: Ooh… something specific? Oh okay! Maybe I can import a quote here in post -

HB: *giggles*

ZB: I’ve been reading Capital by Karl Marx [Das Kapital] in a reading group. It’s been very fun and stimulating and I think every week I talk to you about it. It’s really interesting, I think a lot of it is going over my head but I’ve had friends say to me that so much of reading theory is letting it wash over you and seeing what sticks. That [approach] gives a lot of license to take on your own engagement with the text, which I’ve found quite exciting. But there was this one editor's note that I became obsessed with. It’s about the dialectic and the way that contradiction works against itself and pushes to expand and grow and create movement. It’s been so helpful applying it to so many parts of life. It gives a lot of freedom for things to co-exist and understand that a bit of conflict and textures creates sensation as well as direction sometimes. It’s quite exciting allowing that in and thinking of it as a potential opportunity or a space to be inquisitive when you find these things coming up that are in conflict with each other. It was also so beautifully written.

ZB: Okay I have two industry questions. There are so many things in HB that you were very intentional about and aware of the industry they would be understood within - I’m thinking of the vocabulary even. I’m wondering if there are any things you’ve dropped since because it was based on a misconception?

HB: The first thing that comes to mind was when I read the About page and it said ‘sustainable’ and I was like “wait but I don’t use that word?”. So yeah, very intentional with the vocabulary. I started because there wasn’t a space for me in the [clothing] industry that made me feel comfortable to be part of it. It sometimes feels like the aim of my degree was to put us out in the world to make spreadsheets.

ZB: It’s quite funny isn’t it, doing this degree to make spreadsheets.

HB: Weirdly, for a long time I didn't consider myself in that part of the industry at all. With HB Archive, I like to call it a practice because it can morph and change and evolve.

ZB: Righttt, and it exists outside of the industry because it’s a personal practice?

HB: Yeah.

ZB: And at the moment it has a face in the industry but even if it weren’t open to the public it would exist as its own practice.

HB: Exactly! When I first started, I wanted to make everything myself but eventually tested outsourcing some production. It was cool giving friends work sewing small runs of accessories. Then I tested larger minimum quantities with a local factory which was something I never thought I’d do - that [experience] made me reflect on growing more than I expected. I’m so attached to every piece I make and if multiple hands are making it, then there’s a possibility I'd then lose connection to each [individual] piece. Going on sale was something I never thought I’d do but I had to do it in that circumstance a few years ago. - I’ve kind of shrunk back now after that experience.

ZB: Ohh yes.

HB: I’m thinking of so many things now [that have shifted]. When I started I only wanting to use black and cream fabric! Okay bonus question, what is your perfect day? Start to finish - including, outfit, meals and activities.

ZB: That’s really hard!

HB: I was thinking of your birthday.

ZB: Yes I was thinking of that!

HB: Mine would be my birthday ritual too. It's like my perfect day. I go to yoga in the morning, then I go and get a treat, like a sweet treat with a coffee. I think then my friends meet at my house, we go swimming at a river, and then at six o'clock we go to the pub where we have a lemon, lime and bitters and an eggplant parma.

ZB: I think mine would be pretty similar and my outfit would be responsive to my mood because my idea of a perfect outfit is one that just brings out all the best bits of the mood I'm in. And that it makes me feel like dancing!

HB: There's just so many good outfits!

Recorded over coffee on the 3rd of November, 2025.