Holly and Yoshi met through Post Sole Shop, which Yoshi has been managing for two years. Post Sole Shop is not only a stockist of HB Archive but also space that nourishes the community by hosting events and bringing together local labels. PSS is such a core pillar to the local scene and behind that is Yoshi, championing every garment and accessory that is in the store. Holly and Yoshi sat down with tea and cake to chat her multiple entries into the clothing and footwear industry, and what she has learnt along the way.
*Holly and Yoshi are sitting on Holly’s couch after eating dinner in the gardens*
HB: I want to take a photo of this situation. Should I get a little fork?
YM: Yeah, for the cakes… That fork is beautiful. I always eat with a teaspoon.
HB: I have my porridge with a teaspoon every morning.
YM: I feel like it makes everything taste good.
HB: I agree!
*Holly tries to take a photo*
YM: Did you get it?
HB: I think so. Look! I had [the camera] in my bag, and somehow it's got a Francie sticker on it!
YM: That's so cute.
HB: Oh, I miss her (Anna).
YM: I was so happy when she sent the socks. And this [red jumper]. It's my most favourite shade of red.
HB: I wanted to get them too! We were talking about social media on Instagram before [recording]. I actually had the nicest time on it this morning. I saw Ophelia is doing a part 2 of Men Carrying Flowers. I sent her some pieces last October and she just sent me the film of them and there's a photo of her wearing the cream seersucker Jimmy’s with a Cross Back skirt, I think worn like a dress..
YM: Yeah?
HB: And she's got a starfish in her hand and it's the most beautiful photo.
YM: Is that it? Right there? *points to Holly's copy of Men Carrying Flowers*
HB: Yeah. Literally prized position.
YM: Right under your TV. I love that. I love that it took a year.
HB: Yeah, me too.
YM: Because that's just how things should be. I mean, good things take time. It’s a cheesy concept, but it is true and it's worth the wait usually. So many of our customers are always so generous with their time and I'm pleasantly surprised when on the occasion that the shoes are running a little late they’re so understanding. A lot of the time when it does take longer, it's because something's gone wrong in the last process. And so we have to pause and cut again, like start again, essentially.
HB: It's so cool that you're telling them that you're literally cutting [the leather]. That they can learn about the process of the shoes they’ve ordered... Is it only when something's gone wrong?
YM: Wrong, yeah. It is a funny thing. Well, when I tell them that it's delayed, I generally tell them what part of the process has gone wrong.
HB: That’s good. Do you eat this part? *Points to cake*
YM: No, that's paper film. You can take it off!
HB: I've started sending my customers photos sometimes when I'm making their Pre Orders...
YM: Really? Cute.
HB: Everyone's like, take your time but it’s good for me to have a deadline.
YM: Yeah. Deadlines are a must for creatives. Well, maybe not all creatives. Maybe it's a certain type.
HB: Deadlines for when it's something that is being paid for.
YM: Yeah, for sure.
HB: If it's an exchange I don’t mind waiting.. With a collaboration I often have admired their work for so long so if they’ve got [what i’ve made] and are enjoying it, I don't really mind.
YM: Well, as you said before, having a try-on evening with your friends. It's the best way to discover things. So if that person is genuinely just loving having that item, then that's the best PR, that anyone could offer. Like more than an Instagram post or...
HB: Because you're seeing the thing in real life you can feel it and the person's telling you a story about how they've connected with [what they're wearing].
YM: Exactly. And obviously they'll be wearing it in a way that's true to them and it's literally the best sales tactic without it being a tactic at all. The customers who come in and say, I saw this girl at a cafe and I just stopped her and asked her where her shoes are from. They're like the best customers..
HB: It's almost this secret little world when you see someone wearing [our pieces].
YM: It’s more special because you know what's behind it. I think it's different to wearing a showy brand. You know that everyone knows it’s whatever brand name. Because that's like a different kind of “I know”, you know?
HB: For HB and Post Sole the small details that are continued throughout… I think my button loops as an example. The poet shirts’ button loops - I have a memory of when I was in primary school and I used elastic and hand stitched little loops like that for my doll's clothes.
YM: You've been obsessed with that closure forever.
HB: It's funny, because I hated buttons for a really long time. I didn't use buttons on any of my clothes.
YM: But all of your buttons that are visible are covered buttons right? Which is kind of telling.
HB: True! I still haven't finished the cardigan. You know, what I was doing at the mending club, how I..
YM: You were changing buttons..
HB: I wrote Mend Club for one of my questions. Do you want me to read you some of what I wrote for your things? Umm… You have experience in so many levels of the garment industry. What was your first job? Was it Kowtow?
YM: Yeah, my first job was Kowtow which is a pretty crazy place to start in terms of working your way up to somewhere that aligns with your morals. Like, Kowtow was a really good start. They are somewhere that is mass producing clothing, but they are doing the best they can. They're doing so well to keep it all natural fibres, maintain good relationships with the factories and have all of their fair trade certifications. People don't even consider like half of those things, you know, especially in New Zealand as well. There’s not even that many brands in New Zealand…
HB: I was going to ask if they were the biggest brand within New Zealand?
YM: It's hard to say because Kowtow is not a New Zealand made brand. Sometimes people don't see it as a New Zealand brand. Which is interesting because coming here, there's so many Australian brands that don't manufacture in Australia, but are iconically Australian.
HB: Totally. So yeah, you have experience in so many levels of the garment or TCF industry. Because then you worked doing social media for the underwear brand?
YM: Yeah, yeah.
HB: I guess you were doing more than social media?
YM: You know, it's always “a little bit more” when you work for a small company. Yeah, so Kowtow was an entrance into, like, big fashion. I also interned at Kate Sylvester. So I was at Kowtow during Uni and then I did an internship at Kate Sylvester after I graduated. They were New Zealand made and New Zealand designed. It was interesting to get an insight into the New Zealand manufacturing side of things.
HB: And that was in Wellington
YM: That was in Auckland. Just for a couple of months. And then, I went back to Kowtow. I was there for like four or five years working my way up. The company was continuing to grow as well, which I think I took for granted. Now being at a really, really small company where things can be a bit unstable, that growth period [at Kowtow] was just really solid and having that money to be able to put into a digital team and the sales team [allowed for] all of these different people with different expertise.
HB: And you're all in one office [at Kowtow]?
YM: Yeah, we're all in one office. We had to move and expand and then they've expanded more since then as well. So I would say it's probably one of the biggest fashion brands in New Zealand, like the amount of people that they hire, the amount of space that they occupy in that workroom, you should go and visit some time. It's in Wellington.
HB: I’ve been! I've been to the Auckland store too. I had a really fun time, actually trying clothes on [with friends] when I did the pop-up with Francie.
YM: Oh, cute. I think Kowtow taught me so much about considered design. Because of my heritage, I had always focussed on Japanese design and traditional clothing. It kind of just aligned with Kowtow at the time because that's kind of where some of their design aesthetic came from as well. Being inspired by a sort of Scandinavian minimalist and Japanese blend of style. And it was kind-of “of the time” as well (around 2017). Like, now, I’m not really sure, but in Melbourne, it feels like this is sort of grungy, noughties style is having its moment.
HB: I know what you mean. Do you think that’s Post Sole customers too? The people that come into the shop, do you see it?
YM: Our customers are diverse. They're mostly our age and older and so I think they are sort of the Kowtow generation. The way we dress and also, I guess the customer that..
HB: Francie customer too. Before March has a crossover as well.
YM: It's more considered, and I think, a bit more timeless. Because, I mean timelessness links with sustainability and wearing something with longevity.
HB: Buying once. buying well.
YM: And then that idea of repairing and keeping forever because it's something that you've invested in. And, you know, that's obviously the mentality that we love and would want our customers to have, but it is interesting as we were saying before, that sometimes you meet people who don’t have those same values.
HB: I went through a stage last year where I realised I was repeating what I was writing over and over and over again. There’s some journal entries from like two years ago and I could have written it yesterday. Now I think that's a good thing.
YM: Yeah, I think so. Society sort of values newness. On the internet, it feels like you have to be saying new things all the time, but I feel like every time you speak [and repeat something], you're probably reaching someone new. So, yeah, I think it is important not to be scared of repetition.
HB: I was going to say that too. It's like, you may have heard yourself say the thing 50 times, but the person you're talking to, it may not have resonated with them yet. They may have seen it, but not thought about it.
YM: Yeah and sometimes it takes time you know. It's like learning something new. It takes a few times for it to stick and so they may have read it like two or three times, but maybe it only sticks in the fourth time and they're like, oh, HB Archive!
HB: It's like that with books too. I'm looking at the Deborah Levy books. It's just sitting right there *points* and I read them in 2020, then I read them again this year and I was like, eating up anything from Deborah Levy that I could find.
YM: Yeah, sometimes you don't consume things at the right time and then you consume it again and it's the perfect time. You just needed to hear that quote or hear the story again and it just resonates with you. Just like what we're talking about…
HB: Even the clothes in your wardrobe. Have you been finding this?
YM: Absolutely. As you get older, I feel like you sort of cycle through things again.
*talking about trying to shop in stores with synthetic lights and the certain smell*
YM: We had customers from Singapore today, from China yesterday. International people coming through.
HB: Do they know [about PSS]? Or are they just wandering in?
YM: The Chinese customers came to our shop because they saw us on Instagram. Which I was like, "oh my gosh, amazing". They bought a pair [of shoes] each. They wanted to take something home with them that day so they tried on what we had in stock in their size and took them. Hopefully next time they come, they'll bring their friends.
HB: Absolutely. Or go home and tell their friends who’ll be visiting Melbourne.
YM: Yeah. People do come in and tell us how special the shop is and I have to just remind myself, because I'm in that space every day. So, obviously, you know, you just take these things for granted. But I do feel so proud when I get to say that everything here is made locally - locally, being a bit more of a broader term, but like New Zealand and Australia. They're like, wow, that's so special. We don't have these sorts of shops in Singapore. We don't have many of these sorts of shops, even domestically like interstate within Australia! I mean, Melbourne is the best place for shopping and it's nice to be able to offer a place for locally made things.
HB: I think there's so many more small brands that are kind of like coming up and doing things now and it feels more accessible, then what it was when I finished my degree.
YM: I think maybe that is the benefit of me coming from a fashion design background is that I value the person on the other side because I know how much work goes into it. I think it may be harder if you're just like a business person and you're there to just sell things. And we work on consignment as well, so it's quite different to wholesale. I think the weight of each sale feels heavier for us, because I think once you buy things wholesale, it kind of belongs to you and so you treat it like it's yours. Whereas the things that we have we’re keeping for you. You know? And then once it's sold, that ownership goes from you through us to them. Not really like, just directly from us to them. So it's definitely a different type of transaction.
HB: Yeah?
YM: It's interesting because wholesale is more lucrative for the stockists. Because if you buy things out right, it's usually at a lower price.
HB: I like consignment because I feel I need to have a little bit of control.
YM: I think because you touch every garment. You cut every garment and you make every garment. And so that attachment is a bit more…
HB: Totally. What is the coolest thing you've learned about making shoes?
YM: Whoa, what is the coolest thing I've learned about making shoes? I mean, I think just how many components are in a shoe. Because working at Kowtow, we did lots of traceability stuff. And also through making, you just get to know what goes into a garment pretty well. And I would say the garments that have the most components would be like a tailor jacket or something. And even with a tailored jacket, all of the components are relatively in the same realm, whereas with shoes, everything's from everywhere.
HB: Yep.
YM: And everything is different, the upper is soft and the lining is soft and the laces are soft, but the eyelets that go on the uppers are hard. And then there's like the rubber soles and then there's like another layer of rubber-like material that's called EVA and it's like, what is that? And all the different glues and solvents and then the last!
HB: I remember learning about a “last” and being like, what?!
YM: Yeah, and then how the lasts are different for each style and the last determines the overall shape and feel of the shoe. There are so many things, but I think from that sort of sustainability/traceability background that I was really interested in, I was like, wow, making shoes with a fully transparent supply chain for shoes would be really hard. And at Post Sole, we do our best to keep it local, but there's limitations with the raw material. And that's kind of the same with a lot of the clothing that's made here, you know, like textiles are generally made off shore. It's a little daunting to start that process[of tracing]. But I do it internally. I sort of know where each component comes from. So it's super interesting. I'd love to map it out one day. When I've got time, get a world map.
HB: Yeah, you would know where the supply is from, but then where do you, like, one step earlier, one step earlier.
YM: That's where supply chain mapping is so interesting and also so difficult, but also so important in every product that we use. Shoe making is so different to clothes making in that one aspect. I think just how many components there are, which means, you know, the more hands. The more people. The more money and time involved in each process as well and also trying to do that here with the shoemaking industry is so small and the machinery is so rare and also so temperamental.
HB: How often do things break - like the machines?
YM: Often. Unfortunately. When it's running well, it's running well, but then all of a sudden they don’t. I guess they're all old as well. Like, some of them are like 50 years old. You know, older than Breeze and I. So they're doing well. And I think things [machines] were made better back then as well. But I obviously, like anything, machines need maintenance and that's probably where things are going wrong because there's not enough people who have the know-how to maintain these machines for us.
HB: Oh, that's so scary.
YM: Slowly ageing. But we'll get through it. There's still a few things around. I went to that exhibition at the State Library recently. The photographer had been shooting things that had been happening in Melbourne for years, like decades and decades, and it was his whole body of work. But there were black and white images of Melbourne's CBD when the textiles clothing industry was booming. And it's so cool. I guess it's just like the industrial revolution kind of time for Melbourne. And obviously, those factories probably weren't like the nicest places to work, but I just get so excited when I see manufacturing businesses booming in Australia. Because that's just not a thing that exists anymore. Even in New Zealand, when you hear like all of the wool mills that were around - I just feel like I'm born in the wrong time, you know?
HB: And it's too late. We can't revive. I remember talking to Anna about this. I think she was telling me. It might have been someone else. There was a brand all made in Australia and then it's the Flying geese theory. My favourite theory to quote, which is when labour gets too expensive and you move it to another cheaper country. So they moved everything offshore and then the factories were like, well, we don't have any work now so I'm going to retire. And they’d either try to sell stuff, but then all the machines would end up just getting demolished. And then that's it.
YM: Exactly. All the machinery gets scrapped and so there's the old guys that we work with in the shoemaking industry, they are like, you know, buying and selling and trading old machines. But at some point, people don't need them anymore. And they get scrapped. Breeze has regretted scrapping a couple of machines. You know, because she was like, oh, we don't use these as much or this is on its last legs. Scrap them but then regret it once it is scrapped…
HB: Space is expensive as well.
YM: Exactly. It's a sad reality. And, these machines are big as well. Big and heavy and so specialised that someone who had no inkling of how to use them is not going to be able to figure it out very easily.
HB: There’s not a manual!
YM: It's not like a printer. Even industrial sewing machines are relatively easy to figure out, but these have like thousands of buttons and little switches.
HB: What do we do? Because obviously, we are fighting fast fashion. I remember doing an assignment in 2013, 2012 that was like, do you think slow fashion will overcome fast fashion? And at first I was like, no, because fast fashion is too big. And by the end, I was like, maybe. And it's kind of crazy.
YM: Where does the optimism come from?
HB: I don't know. Somewhere in that assignment, man! I need to dig that up again. I mean we must believe it because we're both doing it and trying. And like, even when I had my shitty brain week of feeling like quitting and then I got this beautiful email from one of my customers who said, they read a lot in the sustainability space, but I was always bringing new insight for them…
YM: Yeah, yeah. Sustainable like SUSTAINABLE.
HB: I don't use that word for my brand because -
YM: I think you redefined that word sustainable in quote marks for me.
HB: Really?
YM: Because I had never thought about it in this way until I went to an ECA chat, and I met this woman, who has her own small brand. She runs it alongside her main job, which is like designing for an outdoor wear brand. Around the same time, you and I were having that chat about being sustainable in quote marks. And I was like, that's so true, that these brands that are perceived as sustainable because they're locally made are actually the least sustainable. Unsustainable for the person, unsustainable in terms of like the dollar value that is put on your time and unsustainable in lots of other aspects as well. It's ironic.
HB: Yeah. I haven't liked a lot of words for a really long time. I'm like very particular about the words I use. I think I've always needed to dig deep and understand what something means and so, if I don't understand, I can't use the word.
YM: Yeah, like recycled again in quote marks. Like, what is truly sustainable?
HB: Nothing! *laughs*
YM: Something that I've been thinking about lately is sustainability in quote marks and longevity. All right, hear me out. Because we live in such a plastic world, everything kind of lasts forever. And, like, nylon and polyester, you know, you don't have to iron it. It's very, like, low maintenance.
HB: We hardly have to care for it.
YM: Exactly. And it's very dye fast as well. So it stays looking the same for a long time. If it's made well, it will last for a really long time. If it's made badly, it might not. But say wool or silk or cotton or even leather. These things wear because they're organic materials. I think sometimes the terms sustainability and longevity are kind of interconnected. But maybe we need to think about the terms a little differently, because sustainability actually means returning back to where it came from. And that's why natural fibres are better but I think because people were like, oh, I'm spending a lot of money on this and it’s sustainable made and I'm going to have this forever.
HB: They could have it for a really long time, but there's more work.
YM: Exactly. You have to look after it.
HB: You have to wash less and follow the instructions.
YM: Yeah. And also I think this idea came from people having to care for their shoes because leather shoes are skin and so you need to moisturise and condition and polish to keep it looking good. At the same time, they are going to wear.
HB: Yep. But you want them to wear. It's like the wearability, like seeing something worn is beautiful, and I feel like that's disconnected as well.
YM: Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Seeing mended holes and I mean, we talked about this when we had our mending event, but it is like changing your values. Things that are worn and things that are kept for longer, things that I mended are beautiful. Or, you know, it’s something that you should strive for, instead of being like, oh, this doesn't look new anymore therefore it doesn't last. It's just something I was thinking about the other day. We are used to seeing so many synthetic things in our lives now, that natural things feel… not wrong, but like we're just not as familiar with them and the ageing process of clothing and accessories. We think everything has to be shiny and new and it has to stay shiny and new.
HB: Even, like, it can't have sweat patches or stains.
YM: Yeah, on a t-shirt. You know, people can't live. It's like these beige and grey houses where everything's really pristine. There's sort of a movement away from that now, back to like a bit more organic and messy
HB: Have you seen. - I feel like Airbnbs do this where they try to shake it up, but they buy the cheap thing like from Kmart that's copied from something. That doesn't have heart. It's still sterile.
YM: And it's just, um.. It's cookie cutter.. everything starts to look the same and feel the same. There's no feeling to it because it's just static, something that someone's just bought because they think that's the right thing to put in this space. It's weird.
HB: I was going to say that there must be a link between the slowness of it, because every time I look around my house, I'm like, oh, this, oh, this, or this. And then I can connect it all together. Because I didn't buy everything overnight. Even ceramic stuff…
YM: You collect them -
HB: six years, seven years, eight years.
YM: It's true. Clothing, too. It is a slowness. You can't just have everything at once because that feels too off the shelf kind of, you know? It's sort of like the same values that you have towards clothing and creating things, that slowness is also reflected in how you curate your space or curate your life, I guess. It’s how you move through the world. And how people should move through the world.
HB: I've made a choice over the years to do less, be less, take less. I don't want to be fast paced.
YM: Yeah, it is important to slow down.
Recorded in Holly's home, 9th of October 2025.
